Comments on Hope and Change: Haters should watch this:

I wasn't justifying the hate (and some of it I...

2009-10-19T14:32:07.319-07:00

I wasn't justifying the hate (and some of it IS hate) because some elements on both sides said it.

There's always going to be fringe elements of any movement or party. Trying to argue with this fringe is pointless. My point was that there were very prominent democrats calling protesters Nazis.

We can't just say "fringe will be fringe" when the speaker of the house is spouting the same kind of rhetoric, and the president can't even bring himself to say, "Hey now, that's a little over the top."

You see that's where I disagree with you. Yes ...

2009-10-18T18:19:34.292-07:00

You see that's where I disagree with you. Yes 'hate' is present on both sides. Both liberals do it, and the conservatives do it. But it doesn't have to be that way.

Even if its one person at a time, if we just stop and lead civil debate then others follow suit. That might actually get us somewhere as a country, instead of just repeating the same:

"You're stupid, your views are wrong, la la la la I don't want to listen, la la la la.

www.goldenarple.com

Is the "hate" wrong? Sure, but both sid...

2009-10-18T14:05:36.474-07:00

Is the "hate" wrong? Sure, but both sides engage in it and it's not going away. Both Bush and Obama rile people. There are plenty of people who think talking about Hitler and Stalin in the same breath is creative thought. But Obama has shown he's more than willing to have "plants" to make his point, thus pouring fuel on the fire.

I agree with you Joe. It feels like at this point ...

2009-10-18T07:15:53.841-07:00

I agree with you Joe. It feels like at this point we're no longer debating issues. Now it seems like there are groups who seek to oppose Obama on every single thing he does.

Hard for someone to succeed when there are so many people hoping he'll fail.

www.goldenarple.com

By the way, I do not include either of you in the ...

2009-10-16T18:23:46.991-07:00

By the way, I do not include either of you in the category of haters, otherwise I probably wouldn't bother arguing with you. I think you both might succumb to anger and negativity a tad too often, but you generally rely on attempts at logical arguments to support your positions. There is nothing wrong with saying that you think the administration's policies are wrong and misguided. I think people on the left should shut up more often and be more supportive, but I can't really complain about people on the right attacking the Democrats' positions and fighting hard for their beliefs. No, the thing I object to is the irrational hate that we see being spewed all over the place, at tea party protests and the like. Those people cannot be reached by rational argument, but maybe they could be moved by the sweet, innocent face of a child.

I don't see how you can justify hate and name-...

2009-10-16T17:54:55.919-07:00

I don't see how you can justify hate and name-calling by saying that some elements on the other side engaged in it as well. Personally, while I never agreed with very much that George Bush did, I thought he was usually acting in what he thought were the best interests of the country (well maybe a bit tainted by what he thought might be best for his friends in the oil business, but generally what he thought was best for the country). And I also think that even if you privately question the good faith of your adversaries, you cede the moral high ground when you question the other side's motives. So I don't approve of name-calling, hyperbole, or hate in general regardless of which side does it.

As for who started it, I believe it was Cain and Abel who started it. But as I always tell my kids when they are fighting, I don't really care who started it.

And if this kid can shame some people into thinking twice before spewing hate and viciousness, I say more power to him.

You know, I'm sure the kid was a plant like th...

2009-10-16T17:18:25.166-07:00

You know, I'm sure the kid was a plant like the last one. Or the doctors who were handed jackets by Obama. The kid should have asked Pelosi about Nazis and all those things... that's what she did for the entire time Bush was in office.

Shameful rhetoric gets you shameful rhetoric right...

2009-10-16T13:40:10.310-07:00

Shameful rhetoric gets you shameful rhetoric right back.

Nazis?
Swastikas?
Shills for insurance companies?
Racists?

Who was it that introduced these elements into the debate? Were these people fringe elements of a party? Or were they high-ranking members of the party? No matter who they came from, why weren't they soundly denounced by this self-proclaimed post-partisan politician?

Hope and change indeed.

For future reference, pointing to children and shouting "FOR SHAME" at your opponents is not an actual argument.